Socratic Seminar

The Battle between Students and Teachers

Chad Shennett

The Danger of Softness – Elbow

"X tells the story of his teaching: ‘I teach students’ – stressing that who he is and who he teaches are more important than what he teaches. Y objects, "you can’t say ‘I teach students.’ Students is only an indirect object. What do you teach students?" Nevertheless it’s a theme of the conference – with force from elementary group – that we do teach students (and teach ourselves). Teaching is a relationship." (Pg. 198)

This passage interested me because it brought up a debate that I never heard or had considered before. Some teachers believe more in who they teach than what they teach while other believe that statement is a myth and you can’t say that you teach students which are an indirect object. I personally believe you must integrate a little of both philosophies. Teachers must teach a subject, but they must teach that subject personally to the students. I think this issue needs to be explored more in detail and that it could be a major debate among teachers.

Pedagogy of the Oppressed – Freire

"The teacher talks about reality as if it were motionless, static, compartmentalized and predictable. Or else he expounds on a topic completely alien to the existential experience of the students. His task is to "fill" the students with the contents of his narration- contents which are detached from reality, disconnected from the totality that endangered them and could give them significance. Words are emptied of their concreteness and become a hollow, alienated and alienating verbosity." (Pg. 52)

I think this says something important about the teacher-student relationship as being non-existent. The fact that teachers act as fillers in the banking-concept of teaching is completely unacceptable. That is not teaching and if it is, then anyone can stand in front of a class and force the students to memorize different information. Teaching involves teaching students information or concepts they can apply in the future.

The Child and the Curriculum – Dewey

"One school fixes its attention upon the importance of the subject-matter of the curriculum as compared with the contents of the child’s own experience." (Pg. 185)

I think this effects the student-teacher relationship in a interesting manner. When the school chooses the literature or subject matter then the teacher has no input and must teach the class what the school tells them. This doesn’t allow the teacher to assess the class and decide on more specific class appropriate literature to teach. Also, the students have no input or options on what they study, instead they are told. This could affect the teacher-student relationship because neither the teacher nor class is happy with the subject material creating a negative learning environment.

Frames of Mind – Gardner

"A principal reason for developing an analytic framework is to explain why certain contemporary educational efforts have achieved success, while many other have met a less happy fate. I shall turn to this task in the concluding chapter of the book. To aid in this effort I have in the final pages of this chapter considered three components that typically occur together in the modern secular education – attendance at a school…"
(Pg. 333)

Gardner believes that the key to achieve educational success involves attendance at school, along with two other components. I do believe its important for students to attend classes as it creates a comfortable and more personal relationship with the teacher. It allows the teacher to get to know the student better. Some teachers are very encouraging regarding certain students to miss school and some students also feel that they can’t miss class for a number of reasons. I disagree with this. I personally believe more learning takes place outside of school. If a student has an opportunity to go on a 4-day road trip or go to the city to see a professional basketball game or hockey game then they should be encouraged by the teacher rather than discouraged. I think many teachers discourage missing class so much that students will pass on opportunities to explore new places and see new things.

Discussion Questions

How do you teach students facts such as capitals and multiplication tables without using the banking-concept?

Or instead of teaching specifics, teach the generalized meaning of capitals and mathematics and let the students explore the specifics if interested?

Why do some teachers, still today, insist on forcing students to memorize specific information?

Do we teach students? Or do we teach a subject?

Should the student have some input into the material they must study and learn from? Or should the teacher and school board solely decide?